Dr. Susanne Fröhlich Interview and Alexandra Joly

Dr. Susanne Fröhlich Interview and Alexandra Joly

 Dr.  Susanne Fröhlich Interview and Alexandra Bailliet-Joly 

 

In mid 2023, Susanne Fröhlich conducted an engaging workshop with the Sydney Recorder Society. Following a delightful day filled with discussions and strolls, Alexandra Joly had the opportunity to catch up with Susanne, leading to the creation of this insightful interview.

Alex: How did the recorder enter your life? What drew you to the instrument? 

SUSANNE: I was lucky to have a brilliant and very inspiring teacher in my first year at music school which we call musical pre-education. It was not on the recorder, but it was with the teacher I would later learn the recorder with. I still remember the first year because it was so exciting doing music together, clapping together, singing together, and playing Orff instruments together.  

After the first year this teacher, Inge Reinelt, said, “now you are ready to learn an instrument” and I was really looking forward to it. My two eldest sisters were learning the recorder as well, but had a terrible teacher, and therefore always complained about this instrument. But I enjoyed the way of teaching and playing of my teacher a lot. So, this is how the recorder came into my world and I couldn’t imagine a life without it.  

Alex: And how did you keep going? When did you realize “I am going to become a recorder player”?  

SUSANNE: This decision was made quite late. I was already in my final year in school and 19 years old.  At that time, I had already won international competitions, took part in many masterclasses with international professors like Han Tol, Walter van Hauwe and Vier Open Rij, but it never popped up in my mind that I could become a professional recorder player. Then my teacher organized a masterclass with Paul Leenhouts from the Amsterdam Loeki Stardust Quartet in my hometown Passau and it literally changed my life. In this one-to-one lesson with Paul, I realized that music making is like entering new universes – that you can create anything on stage. Afterwards Paul told me, “You should come to Amsterdam and study with me” and I said to him, “I really want to do this. This is who I am!” 

Alex: What happened next?! 

SUSANNE: A few months later I was in Amsterdam. We had to be quick because the masterclass took place in March, and the deadline to apply for the studies at the Conservatory was very close. It went so quick my parents, my whole family and friends were shocked. 

Alex: What did your parents think of the whole recorder career? 

SUSANNE: I come from a family which is not very musical and has no clue of such a career path. You can imagine that there were a lot of doubts. But I had so much energy and inspiration and was full of life that they believed in me. And I am super thankful that they did let me go.  

Alex: What does an average day in Berlin as a recorder player look like? Which is a really tough question. Because it’s never the same, is it?  

SUSANNE: No. It’s also the reason why I became a recorder player and why I chose to be a freelance musician. Every day is different and almost like an adventure, especially when you are part of a project, or you are going on tour. It’s not at all like a 9 to 5 job. I can stretch out my daily life, completely by myself and work in my own timing. It is important for me to do music every day next to all the other stuff a freelance musician has to do. It is something I’ve figured out especially in the past view years. For example, during my PhD I was writing for long periods of time, and at a certain moment I felt bad, that something was wrong... I didn’t realize at first. And then suddenly it popped up into my mind - I must do music again!  

Alex: What was it like working with Mollenhauer? How did you come to work with them? 

SUSANNE: It was very exciting because I had never done something like that before. And I never thought that somebody like me, a performer, could influence the development of an instrument. But when Jo Kunath took over the Paetzold bass recorders from Herbert Paetzold, he and his team completely re-looked at the design in collaboration with recorder players – and not only professionals.  Jo was the first recorder maker I met who approached us players and asked them for their opinion. “What and how can we improve?” Without him I would never have dared to go to Mollenhauer and ask for a collaboration.  

So, at a certain moment, just before my PhD studies, I went to Mollenhauer, and I was full doubts. But through my former recorder quartet QNG-Quartet New Generation I was already in touch with them. We performed on some of their instruments (the Denner series of alto, tenor, f basset and great bass). I always tried and tested a few of their instruments but, as I said it never really occurred to me that I could go to them and say, “this can or even has to be improved”. When I told them about my research project, they got curious and said right away that they are interested in this collaboration. 

Looking back in history there is always a special momentum of change. There must be a certain urge, a reason, a vision. Through my studies with Johannes Fischer in Darmstadt I gained quite some knowledge of the Helder Tenor and Erik Jahn, the former recorder developer of Mollenhauer, was very keen to improve these instruments as well.  

Susanne playing a Helder Recorder. Photo Credit: Cristina Marx.

Alex: Perfect timing to do a PhD! Time to talk about the Helder Recorder. 

What repertoire and what sound/acoustic do you feel is its home? A lot of people have never heard of the Helder Recorder in Australia, would you describe it as a modern a recorder? 

SUSANNE: At the beginning of my collaboration with Mollenhauer we were questioning if we shall start from scratch, or if we use the Helder Tenor and build from that instrument. It took us a few months to think about it because there are a lot of pros and cons for both sides. We finally decided to go for the Helder recorder. We already knew how to play on it, why and what we wanted to improve and there was already repertoire we could build on. To start from scratch would have meant to practice from scratch, not knowing where we would end. So, we all agreed that we want to have an instrument we already know how to use and be able to extend in its practice and playing techniques.  

Sound wise I would describe the Helder as a wind instrument between a flute and a clarinet, some sort of hybrid. Very often recorder players mention that the Helder recorder sounds “too modern”. But I wonder, what is a “modern recorder sound”? How does a “normal” recorder sound like? For me the recorder is so flexible in its sound. It can sound like anything! This huge variety in models, sizes and tunings are also its huge advantage. And somehow also its nature, because the recorder was always adjusted to the sound ideals of its time. But still people do say that the baroque recorder is THE recorder sound. 

Alex: There’s so many issues with that idea. That ignores all the different models, sizes, sounds and playing styles! 

SUSANNE: Yeah! I never really felt that the recorder must sound like this or that. I was always looking for new sounds anyway. And it so much depends on the repertoire you are performing.  

In my PhD I was asking myself how exactly contemporary recorder models enrich the contemporary recorder repertoire as well as the recorder performance practice, the extended playing techniques, and the combination with other contemporary instruments. In general, I wanted to encourage the development of the recorder’s enormous variety, and more specifically, I wanted to extend the recorder’s potential to meet the challenges and new demands of contemporary music. My final goal was, to question, shift and dissolve technical limits and aesthetic borders of today’s recorder performance practice, thus making the recorder genuinely contemporary. 

Alex: Who are artists or teachers that have inspired you the most? Or continue to inspire you? 

 SUSANNE: My first master class was with the Dutch recorder player Han Tol. I still remember because he is so tall, and he played this tiny instrument, and he played so beautifully! I didn’t have a one-to-one lesson, but was listening to the masterclass, and learned so much from that. So, he is definitely the first one to name because he was also the first professional recorder player I met beside my teacher in my hometown. And then the second masterclass was with Walter van Hauwe - he is like THE guru. I was so excited to meet him, and it was so much fun learning from him.  

Alex: I love his masterclasses. They are so much fun. He is so charismatic even when he is not playing.  

SUSANNE: Yes, and so inspiring! Then of course the recorder players from the Amsterdam Loeki Stardust Quartet. I just love the way they make music together, their sound and spirit on stage, especially Paul Leenhouts. He was really the main reason I wanted to become a professional recorder player. I was very inspired by him, by the way he teaches, but also by the way he performs and lifts music.  

Last but not least, I also would like to mention my professor in Berlin, Gerd Lünenbürger. Unfortunately, he passed away much too early, but I am super grateful to have been able to study with him. I learned to work very detailed on any kind of music – like a surgeon, looking for anything which lies within it.  

Alex: Where is the most unusual place the recorder has taken you? Where was the moment you thought, if I wasn’t a recorder player I wouldn’t be here right now? 

SUSANNE: Definitely in Iceland! It was invited by friends to play with their ensemble called adapter. We performed a mixed program of early and contemporary music in this most magical place I ever have been. The place is called Skálholt and it’s in the middle of nowhere. There’s only a church, a town hall, and a few holiday houses for the musicians who are performing at the festival. We even had a cook coming to us every day and serving us very delicious meals. There are no shops, no cafés, no restaurants…nothing… People from the cities are even transported by buses to go to these summer festival concerts. I never performed so well in my whole life.  

Alex: Was it like a meditation?  

SUSANNE: The music was just there, I just had to take it. I will never forget that feeling. It was pure magic. And the people in Iceland have this tradition of not clapping in between or after the concerts. So, when you finish the concert, they stand up, look at you and you walk through them to the exit. It was so moving and meant so much because they really…  

Alex: They were acknowledging… 

SUSANNE: Yes! You really could feel their gratitude in the whole church. It was filled with energy. And this way of acknowledgment doesn’t kill the sound from before. Very often the clapping destroys everything. But there in this church, the music stayed, and you could feel that all the music is in this environment already for centuries.  

Alex: Wow. That sounds pretty magical! What brought you to Australia?  

SUSANNE: My partner and I were invited by the composer and performer Hollis Taylor for a project called “The Music of Nature and the Nature of Music”. Hollis is living in Alice Springs together with her partner and violinist Jon Rose. Together they are researching the pied butcherbird and Hollis has even published a book called Is Birdsong Music 

For this project she composed a few pieces, and the idea was to not only premiere them during their concert series, but also to record the pieces for the Berlin based online label Pantopia music. It is a very interesting label you should check out on pantopia-music.org. However, Hollis composed three solo pieces for the pied butcherbird and the three different recorder models, sopranino, Helder tenor and Paetzold Bass. Then two more chamber music pieces. One with my partner, who is a double bass player, plus soprano recorder, violin, and pied butcherbird. The other one is a duet with violin and recorder. 

For the album we also recorded some improvisations based on field recordings of Hollis and Jon. You can find them online on: https://pantopia-music.org/en/album-mparntwe-moments-musical-adventures-in-the-red-centre/ 

Alex: And what inspires you outside of the recorder?  

SUSANNE: I guess everybody started new hobbies during the pandemic and so did I. I started birdwatching. I must admit that my partner is a hobby ornithologist, and he is even breeding birds at home. So that’s not so far outside of the range. But it was for me Covid which changed that. Since then, I regularly got out into nature with him to watch birds and take hikes into forests and open landscapes. This has become a very important part of me, and I can’t think to have a life without the birds anymore.  

I also really like going to museums. This is not a covid thing, but it’s something which inspired me my whole life, especially contemporary art – it really makes my mind explode and getting so many new ideas. I also like going to the theatre, jazz clubs, all kind of concert halls and dance performances. Berlin is a super great city regarding any kind of art.  

Alex: It’s got everything. 

SUSANNE: Yeah definitely… Everything which is somehow related to art and activates my fantasy is kind of important to me. 

Alex: What were the steps in your own musical journey that led you to the Helder? 

SUSANNE: Well, there's one event which was very important. It was an international competition for contemporary recorder music in Darmstadt. And there I met recorder player Johannes Fisher. Next to Gerhard Braun he was one of the jury members. He is really a pioneer regarding the Helder Tenor.  

At that time, I didn't play many contemporary recorder models, except the Paetzold basses. And that's it. I was playing a lot of contemporary music with baroque, renaissance and even mediaeval instruments. So, the jury was quite upset by that fact and there was a big discussion. At the end, they didn't even give a first prize and I won a shared second prize.  

Afterwards we went out for dinner with all the participants and the jury members. Johannes Fischer and I had a great discussion. At the end he said, “you know, come to my place tomorrow, and I show you what I mean. You must hear what I am talking about!” So, I went to his place the next day, and I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. It was clear for me, that there was no way back anymore. With the prize money I bought a Helder Tenor! 

Alex: What do you think are the most significant aspects of the Helder design, that differ to a normal baroque model? 

SUSANNE: Firstly, the bore. It is a long bore with an extension. The instrument doesn't go to C, it goes to B natural. And this extension is very important for the quality of the third octave and for the whole balance across the instrument.  

Secondly, the Helder is based on pure harmonics. This means that I can over-blow the first few bottom notes into pure harmonics. And therefore, I can work with long fingerings (like on the Ganassi recorders) and play very softly in the high registers. And in combination with a piano key and the lip control (using the flexible block system), I can really make the third octave sound very soft. That's a big revolution. That's huge for the recorder. 

Thirdly, we used more keys than usual. The Helder instruments have a piano key which we can use to play standard fingerings softer, but also to make the third octave more stable. Then we have two extra keys for a more stable f# and g#. And we decided to work with a chromatic key system. This means the fingerings in the third octave are much more related to the bottom notes. It's not so arbitrary, and it makes more sense. The former model was based on a diatonic system and the fingerings in the third octave were just giving me headaches.  

But the best is yet to come: Depending on the musical material and style you can adjust your sound through a flexible block system, called Sound Unit. This means that you can vary the wind way size and sound more like a flute (wide windway) or like a duduk (narrow windway). Furthermore, you can move the block while playing through the lip control, meaning that you can fade in and fade out, give notes a proper start and ending, which is quite magical. But it is something you really have to practice and get used to it.  

I recently gave a workshop for people who haven’t been in touch with contemporary recorder models. It was organized by the European Recorder Teacher’s Association and there were some teachers who also teach flute or clarinet and they immediately could play all the stuff on the Helder recorders. It was very easy for them because they are used to manipulating the sound with the lips and embouchure. For us recorder players, it is trickier. Also, some of my students in Berlin, who play the oboe or bassoon, can easily use the lip control. So, it is really just a matter of practice.  

Susanne premiering the Sopranino piece by Hollis.  Photo Credit: Claudia Hansen

Alex: Which brings us to the next question. With all these developments that have taken place in the Helder, do you still think of it as a recorder?  

Susanne: Definitely. Yeah. And I can certainly explain you why! We still have the mouthpiece, we still have the block, it's still the same way to blow into it. We have open finger holes. 

So yes, The Helder is a recorder and I think it's a very important question. 

Alex: Do you still play the traditional recorder at all?  

Susanne: Yes, certainly. This was one of the reasons to do this research. I wanted to show we need this variety. But this also means for the music of our time, we need an instrument, which fits this music and fits the aesthetics.  

It's great to have an instrument which stands along with all these new challenges in the contemporary repertoire. It means as well we don’t have to take baroque recorders or earlier models and push them way beyond their limits.  

I mean, it can be interesting playing contemporary music on early music instruments, but it shouldn't be the standard. The standard should be an instrument coping with all the new demands. Recorder makers were always doing this in the past. They always adjusted the recorder to the sound ideals of each time. 

Alex: Let's stop trying to be like other instruments whose designs have stopped improving... 

If price were no object, could you imagine someone learning recorder on a Helder from the start - from the very start of the recorder journey? 

Susanne: No, I think there should be something like a “pre-model”. For five- to seven-year-olds, it would be very tricky with the sound unit as well as with a flexible block and the piano key. 

I mean, the instrument itself is also very big. Of course, we have the Helder Alto, but it would still be too big! But I think it would be great if students started with a keyed bottom hole, so that they don't get used to a soft low octave and a loud high octave. This is already a big difference with modern instruments build for example by Mollenhauer and Moeck. 

Alex: When traditional recorder players take up playing the Helder, which aspect is usually most difficult to master? 

Susanne: Well, if it's a recorder player who doesn't have any background in playing other wind instruments, I think the biggest challenge is the flexible block system - that you start closing the window entrance with your lips. 

And probably also the movement of the piano key. Although this is very similar to the Ganassi recorder way of playing, where you shade the finger holes with your left hand. Like this you move anyway towards the piano key. This is indeed what I always try to imagine – using a technique I already know from other recorders and bring it to the next level.  

Alex: Is there a soprano version of the Helder in development?  

Susanne: No, and I don't think there will be. It wouldn't make sense because you don't need or want to go that high in pitch. And we already have the modern sopranos by Mollenhauer and Moeck. I also think that the sound unit system would not work because the instrument is so much smaller. You wouldn't be able to control it anymore. 

Alex: Would you like to explore playing Helder instruments in an ensemble?  

Susanne: Definitely. In the last years of my former recorder quartet, I had already started playing the Helder and I realised how much it enriches the recorder ensemble sound. So, I would recommend people to try it out. Furthermore, I mainly use the Helder instruments in mixed chamber settings to be able to blend and connect with all kinds of different instruments – modern but also traditional. 

Alex: With all those moving parts, how have you found the Helder in relation to ongoing maintenance? 

Susanne: We were thinking a lot about this topic. What kind of material should we use? What kind of shape of the keys do we need? At the end we developed a quite ergonomic instrument, inspired by other modern instruments. 

Of course, you must use key oil like any other woodwind instrumentalist. Recorder players need to get used to that because we’ve never learned how to do that.  

In the earlier Helder version the Sound Unit was not so easy to handle. It had a lot of angles and, depending on how you assembled the block and platelet [flat surface on top of the block] you could damage these vulnerable parts, which is also dangerous for the overall sound. You must know that you should always remove the block and platelet after playing, so these parts can dry.   

However, the great advantage of the Helder is, if something gets damaged, you can easily change any of the damaged parts. It's not that you have one instrument and then you throw the whole instrument away. On a Helder you can change anything. Literally.  

 

Thank you to the Sydney Recorder Society for the making this interview possible.  

A big thank you to Susanne for taking the time to have this interview.  

Click here to find out more about Susanne.

Click here to watch and listen to her Youtube Channel.

Click here to Listen to Susanne’s Newest Album “Musical Adventures in the Red Centre”.

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